Map assessment and pathing enhancements

[Nelsona]

UTDMT explanations.

Titan is creating a sort of PlayerStart, it's private. This thing not linked in NavigationPointlist won't really allow players to spawn over there. There is a sort of actor or such inside package which is recommended in some comment to be used as ServerActor where UTDMT is engaged in server's repositories for solving whatever message problem. I'm not sure if it's helping or not but definitely it was addressing whatever server, perhaps a script was rotating configuration making UTDMT to talk different things in the same map(/s).

Pathing techs
According to header UnPath.h reachSpecs data with regard to collision parameters have a maximum size of 70 x 70 UU or such in UT's automated devs. Titan is a Big one completely discarded by Devs natively. A Titan in exchange can use a smaller DrawScale and then it will modify collision itself. A Blue Path might be MonsterPath and then... if this resized Titan is accomplishing navigation needs will be capable to track an enemy like a Skaarj or whatever ground unit. Patrolling and Alarms are dedicated to ScriptedPawns and they work as they are even in UT, disregarding the fake stories which Epic was writing in some DOCS as being not operational in UT - not for Bots, of course - I guess they were a bit drunk, with very poor explanations. Alarms and Patrols and AmbushPoints are working for ScriptedPawns, and UT has ScriptedPawns, as MonsterHunt demonstrates that very clearly for years.
More advanced MonsterHunt game-controllers are demonstrating that creatures adjusted and correctly set can perform all sort of actions. I have to admit that not everyone is understanding how to setup a monster party and pathing generally- and some of Epic's mappers were in the same situation.

Starting with 2012 (when I was a... low skilled UT user) we had functions for manipulating these pathing data in a different way unlocking more features/capabilities of a monster. If community was completely blind at what U227 can do, that's a loss.

[evilgrins]

Most mappers who did UTDMT before me kept them to a confined space, limiting how far they could move by not giving them many options.

I on the other hand prefer them free range.

Moving right along... this map is weird! BIG area, multiple levels, apples all over the place but I think the guy either hates the red team or he wasn't paying attention.

1) Red Team NEVER leaves the Red Base.

2) Blue Team can traverse the entire map, but when they grab the Red Flag, they NEVER take it back to their own base.

3) Most of Red Team tends to stay in a cage off the side of their base.

So... good luck with that.

[Nelsona]

He was hating... something unknown...
Right now, after two small beers I can see what is this: entire failure. Using Editor to do the map itself without mapper participation ? Lol.
In "RedBase" I was interested to find a good way to "BlueBase". Engine was looping me here:

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7433 reachSpecs while UnPath.h headers are describing in comments allocating space for max. 3000 for a better operation. Why Engine is looping ? Well there are similar data as PreviousPath and NextNavigationpoint in these two points. Is a calculation error because we are much over 3000 or... is a bug in wrapping array also based on charge. If you look well, this number of PathNodes has the meaning of: "I'm not aware about what I do here".
Okay Bot Pathing is not that hard here but... don't count on Big Monsters for roaming chapter. Titans are not jumping unless you fire a redeemer and... cough.
It will take a while because week-end is almost over and I have a reduced free time, but this is a nice one...

[evilgrins]

It will take a while because week-end is almost over and I have a reduced free time, but this is a nice one...

Have fun... there's no rush.

[Nelsona]

Ahem, it will be fun
Map has duplicated actors - edited one won't have
It's "funny" in a way, map has a bunch of Pathnodes nearby FlagBase1 = Team 0, but this base was not having any single incoming connection. Another demonstration of a spam data charged with no use. I'm not bother to filter them with MapGarbage I'd rather prefer to add them manually after applying Pre-Pathing tweaks.
I won't try to predict how many reachSpecs will result in final stage, this is not important, in exchange I see some TranslocDest points probably not having their best placement, I'm not convinced that Bots will manage to use them. These combos must be well examined before to mess routes.

[Nelsona]

Probably done !

CTF-Esper-v4_rS1419.7z

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To me it's indeed a bit miss-balanced in how are PlayerStarts decided, else a server like MGS having a Base-Switching mutator should balance this thing.
And then, the only WarheadAmmo has been deleted because this is not that fair. One team firing a redeemer at time, other one two.
Blue defender from middle was camping with butt at enemy not with face. Lol map... All duplicates of certain actors have been deleted.
Let me know if I failed some other goofing... 1419 reachSpecs covering map should do what we call Bot Support.

[evilgrins]

The esper map is looking good, upgraded to v5 and credited you... as I do all maps you path.

So... the UTDMT on the 2nd Tundra map are amazing with your pathing. They regularly patrol their own base, but if challenged they will hunt down whoever killed them until that person is dead. If the Titan gets killed, when it respawns it goes after who killed it again... and then it literally walks back into its base and starts patrolling in there again.

Not sure what would work with Warlords/UTDMW. Maybe for when they're walking, but I would assume as soon as they fly away that's the end of that.

May have a map to try testing that on, but it's not this one.

Okay, for the most part this map is in a state of a constant earthquake due to the large spaceship that keeps flying back and forth above it. That's okay... kinda cool.

Prior to my adding Warlords, bots got hung up in several spots, would be stuck there running in place. Most common ones would be if they got the flag from the other team they'd run back to their own base but the last ramps that lead up to the flag they would get stuck running in place at the bottom of them.

There's a few others spots like that.

[Nelsona]

Not sure what would work with Warlords/UTDMW. Maybe for when they're walking, but I would assume as soon as they fly away that's the end of that.

With Warlords and generally with these "Flight" units I did tests using native flight routes. Monsters with best results were mantas even gasbags, and here I assuming fly will head through paths. Warlord, as intelligent as it is is not always tempted to follow paths for some reasons:
- has collision 78 × 52 - over said plain default registered 70 UU value in reachSpecs;
- has two possible movement physics.
Where is the problem ? First is collision, it's considered too big - will need to be adjusted a bit, I believe 0.8 DrawScale would be enough. However there is a second rule, movement physics. When current movement physics is not matching path directive, I'm not sure if Pawn can follow routes to certain target. From a smart monster EPIC did a sort of loser speaking about plain creature properties not very capable to navigate unless we want some "manual" work in map. But... I think it worth trying to do something as long as we can manipulate paths and maybe we can try convincing Warlords to do what we need as long as they are ScriptedPawns after all.

I'll look at this one, definitely some navigation node is rammed or has wrong setup.

Edit: Okay, okay. I see what is here...
It needs ORDER and DISCIPLINE... lol mapping. Here we do have Paths probably done with Editor and deleted a few nodes later, we have defensepoints turned in dumb default rotation out of Flag logic. We do have miss-balaced starts also out of rotation setup, nothing as AlternatePaths, those Movers supposed to be traps are just..., one sniperrifle in a base while in the same spot in other base is that Lance. Here I think is place for dynamic defensepoints, some SmartAlternatePaths and... PATHS over bridges not what Editor does. And then we can speak about Warlords and their options.
The rest of Teleporters supposed to lead at Flags... I'm doubt to be done with plain Editor that easy, I'm not sure if worth wasting time over there.

[evilgrins]

Warlord, as intelligent as it is is not always tempted to follow paths for some reasons

I think that extra intelligence is the problem, it doesn't like being anyone's bitch.

As you've noted, smaller flying things follow pathing better. As previously mentioned, when I've shrunk Warlords down they follow bot pathing pretty easily.

one sniperrifle in a base while in the same spot in other base is that Lance

That's actually my fault, I missed that last sniper rifle. Map originally had all the normal weapons, but the Stargate theme was so strong I decided to swap ALL weapons, except the redeemer, to the Goa'uld lance. Been doing similar with Star Wars maps I have since I finally got a Stormtrooper blaster.

The rest of Teleporters supposed to lead at Flags... I'm doubt to be done with plain Editor that easy, I'm not sure if worth wasting time over there.

Yeah, don't bother with the Stargates... I like them as is.

[Nelsona]

I think that extra intelligence is the problem, it doesn't like being anyone's bitch.

Mmm nope... Titans are ScriptedPawns but... not having a physics soup as Warlords, these boys are not always compatible with pathing requirements: reachFlags and collision acceptance...
I deleted useless and those without logic paths from teleporters. Pawn will never follow other routecache than from teleporters ahead because they are kidnapped by Teleporters - these are unidirectional and destination is higher, also were connected at too many Nodes around. I had to operate manually some of these junk data, result will be a primary prototype addressing plain ground navigation and I will try other version addressing Warlords attempting to give them some "instructions".

In the same way, map went D3D crusher after the trip through UGold (f...g news) and I had to do some re-importing, and correcting textures flaws happily injected by UGold. So far a few basic tests were good, Bots are playing CTF.
Changes:
- deleted pointless and borked stock TriggeredDeath garbage stuff - incompatible with monsters in certain cases (majority);
- adjusted movers accordingly for being two-way killers - crush up and crush down;
- reconstructed another Paths Network using SmartAlternatePaths and dynamic defenses (turning around randomly) out of items which were causing too much charge;
- deleted useless reachSpecs - still added based on plain rules;
- deleted lights from void;
- merged some polygons;
- changed that Water crap texture left as junk where surface is NOT WATER and water texture doesn't make any sense;
- deleted ALL Triggers firing Quake - What for these big ones ? ONE single StochasticTrigger out of collision does the same thing without charging collisions processing and less actors in map - these "mappers" should learn to map random events in a simpler and faster way;
- adjusted triggers for bridges... which are having paths right now;
- deleted useless brushes from the same place Add and similar Subtract.
Editing...

Next stage is another edit aiming some Warlords action - if possible. Not the great - I might need another non-stock A.I. assistant actor (for keeping alarms I suppose) but... let's say we can have pretty much captures that are hard to be stopped - Bot won't be capable to track these "flag hunters". These are not happening all time but are happening depending on game state...

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