Map assessment and pathing enhancements

[evilgrins]

Defender can see a lot resulting that he can be seen from a lot of spots. Visibility is reversal in my logic. If you look at me I can look at you as well.

One comment over on the ut99 forum was some surprise the corner-tower closest to each flag wasn't a defense spot as it seemed so obvious to them.

I'll poke around for some possibles when I get home tonight. Offhand, given each side has at least 3 time portals, I don't think any should be near the portals as you can never tell who's coming in from when. There are some spots near the stairs that are kinda ideal.

[Nelsona]

There are some spots near the stairs that are kinda ideal.

Yeah, I was thinking at those places, limited visibility but making defender more harder to be seen as well and being more closer to a sudden presence.

Next Pathing Investigation.
I think map might be closer to SPACE boundaries when it comes to routing process. I build paths with Editor - all linked, all checks returned logic connections.
When I went to do checks in the same spot during run-time and probing these alone, DevPath was taking a break like in prior network, reaction seems even worst. The optimized and simplified network was delivering a better response... I believe that throwing out some Nodes would speed up routing reaction and covering a large Space.

[Nelsona]

Here it is something with two defenses per base - I don't think this environment is very friendly with defending....

CTF-TimeRip_rS2680.7z

(945.07 KiB) Downloaded 216 times

Big Space... Matching more players... but more players = lack of weaponry... Lack Of weaponry = How do the defense works ?
And that's all... Now I really see that Big Maps for DM CTF out of sniper games are frankly useless...
They (12 Bots) played at 0 - 0 for long time - then went over time - then I stopped game.

Pathing ? We do have logic links but I'm not sure about run-time environment how well are things going everywhere... More paths = more funky reactions.

[evilgrins]

Big Space... Matching more players... but more players = lack of weaponry... Lack Of weaponry

That's 1 of the reasons I play with the pinata mutator.

And that's all... Now I really see that Big Maps for DM CTF out of sniper games are frankly useless

Don't agree with that, but ideally for a big map it likely works best when the map is more rectangular and long than big and square.

They (12 Bots) played at 0 - 0 for long time - then went over time - then I stopped game.

I tried similar with the full 16, that went forever.

I took a nap and they were still going at it with no points scored a couple hours later.

Pathing ? We do have logic links but I'm not sure about run-time environment how well are things going everywhere... More paths = more funky reactions.

More paths shouldn't be necessary, that was fine in the BETA. Just some fine tuning here and there along the existing paths is all that's really needed.

[Nelsona]

This map is another lesson for whoever is saying various stories. You can have something in Editor, but during run-time when some collisions are showing up things start working different or... not working. Such thing is routing process. Yes, my custom CTF which I'm widely using, allows me to do test sessions + a mutator for pointing where to go. What's the thing that drives you/me/anyone crazy ? Big maps will require X hours for probing spots that are way too many. Testing is possible but it takes ages - and that's a problem because during this time you are not doing anything useful around - which later will turn against you.

[evilgrins]

I can't currently edit anything, so here's the thing.

Same defense point on both sides sort of has an issue as it's right next to a staircase...

...but bot there can't see anyone that goes up the staircase.

Only reason this fight started is one of the invading bots noticed the defense bot.

[Nelsona]

Not a surprise... When devs are working harder in such a space I could see even Monsters ignoring me - there I think "SeePlayer" it's not working at full capacity...
You have demonstrated this already, finally Bot has figured the defender while defender was in a "latent" task being triggered later by weapon "bWarnTarget" stuff...

That position for defending it's normal, if Bot cannot see enemy that's ENGINE problem - "SeePlayer" is called by Engine... because not only pathing might go into glitches in this environment but other things as well (SeePlayer, HeardNoise, HearPickup, etc) as the map is pretty loaded for UE1.

[evilgrins]

That position for defending it's normal, if Bot cannot see enemy that's ENGINE problem - "SeePlayer" is called by Engine

If my UnrealEd were working I'd probably move the defense position a little away from the corner and slightly turn it so it can see the flag but also a bit to what's on the side for the staircase... but at the moment I can't edit anything.

[Nelsona]

Last time (some weeks ago) due to a power failure my OS went screwed up.
I reinstalled OS in "repair" mode forgetting to log as "Administrator" in final stage and then... several settings and stuff was not set normally.
As result of this stunt, version of UT which I used with XC_Engine 21 doesn't look very friendly, it works sometimes as Admin and fails as "User". I really have to solve it somehow... or an OS DLL file has been "rebuilt" which now is not the right file... Anyway... XC24 with its specific install works normally... but I feel system different compared to what it was. Some day I will need to reinstall everything in a clean state and rebuilding accounts normally...

Resuming topic. I'll move defenses a bit and updating their paths...

As for your case, I would install a clean UT copy elsewhere (not on OS partition) for probing if something was not damaged by whatever "update".

Edit: Here is map with Defenses moved and Paths updated, also here SpawnPoints won't have any useless pathing data - removed using last technology.
See this...

CTF-TimeRip_rS2560.7z

(944.46 KiB) Downloaded 202 times

[evilgrins]

Been awhile...
https://www.ut99maps.net/maps/sniper/DM ... repack.zip
...asses that, and path away!

No rush, it's pretty big.

Tempted to get you to add a UTDMS on that, but I'd need to pick a spot first, and submit a texture... so don't worry about that now.