House of Fools

Posted: **Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:30 pm**

That's FallingState code. Pawn due to gravity is engaged in high spots. Then it starts falling. The point where it falls is computed to be the nearest in order to deliver a limitation for falling distance and preventing death. I have to admit that this rule could be revised in Low gravity but... I don't think if any of Epic masters was bothering with this chapter or perhaps computing 3D space it's CPU intensive or heck knows what was the deal.

What we do then ? Of course we won't get crazy because of their lousy codes. We need to track well how do they move, potential deviations but knowing a bit where they are flying. Somewhere at top of their flight or around it we can deploy a kicker set for "Bot" class - this will attack ALL sort of Bots. There we can add whatever values on X Y or... even negative at Z in order to bug their flight to the Moon, lol, and causing a forced fall into some direction.

Of course, I'm trying to prevent redundant posting about what kind of Jumpy Combos they did. It's not like these are One-Way and... I don't know what does it do Plain Bot. MBots are trying to jump at random or they lock route for a few seconds but... it takes days to check Plain Bots in all skill levels. We can only study map privately and setup a screenshot - printing coordinates where the crapped jump it's happening... I don't think it will work 100% but it's better to have an alternate good reaction instead of looping. In the other map Giants I witnessed some funky jumps but... MBot was not that bad so I did not bother too much with kickers, one of those has kickers added not by me - definitely low-grav needs some assistance.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:54 am**

Ideally something to make them at least fly in the direction of their own base when they have the other team's flag.

There's another problem... having the wings make the tubes on the map problematic. Bots will pass through but instead of getting launched into the air they stop right at the top. It's due to this I've only placed a single egg to each base way up near the top of the map where the flags are.

Haven't tried it myself yet, I largely test with bots until I think I've done all I can and then play it myself.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:09 am**

As you might figured, that "Wing" stuff is poorly coded as in Ice Age. It doesn't take in account more factors and for me at almost 50 years old I don't think that is suitable for low gravity in any way, in low gravity you can use ImpactHammer and you'll move fast enough and far away, not stuff which won't be managed ever by Bots. I'm doing things based on real life logic which I got during my activity. I'm not based on dreams.
In other map I lost carrier because of these wings throwing me away from tracking enemy until I figured that defending was EASY - too EASY and then... out of wings you have the game, with wings you have the moving bugs - What for ?
I think (without to look at codes) those are maintaining almost initial velocity which is not good at all and neither logic - flying high instead of flying forward. That crapped Chaos has 100 times more logic codes and assets than these "Wings". I'm not sure if a kicker would be helpful in this case.
Wings should work only in Default GRAVITY but I can bet on 10$ there are poorly written codes which are not checking anything regarding to gravity. And if I=m talking about Gravity, it's about tubes, at least stock UT has navigation combos for bots but these Wings are only messing up over there.

As a note: If XC_Engine would keep me on fire with NavAdder, in maps with these eggs I would do patch files like for map MH-URealV3 - all TRASH out, and remapping navigation. But the job it's not ready in XC, it went more bad since v22 due to compiling fantasies and then I can blow up all my work for all those plugins. I spent months working there and even if I will have future plans I won't move a finger for such projects, it doesn't worth trusting community which is changing direction like wind leaving me stuck and then talking about my Anti-Social habits on Discord (I almost lived a whole life without you, boys...)- it's because I hate your latest RUINS, geniuses, you cannot finish what you have started and usually I'm not really dealing with people having these habits against UT which are called "development", UT mapping now days has 10 Betas, 10 Final versions, then 3 Finished versions and other 10 Fixed versions for finished versions which are NOT Finished. Making a mess or only a half of job in UT it's not development.
Note off.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:16 am**

Nelsona wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:09 amI almost lived a whole life without you, boys...

How old are you exactly?

Anyway, something to assess in the meantime. There's nothing glaringly wrong with this map (it's an oldie) and it's got potential for wings (more with players in mind than bots) but I haven't put any on as yet.

Originally had UTDMT on it, then UTDMW, and now the UTDMS. Plus cats.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:59 pm**

It's not that bad... but it's not exactly as expected. Let's see:
#1 PathNodes from water must be only with leafs out of water, they need to be IN water under surface - there is a single exit from water, the rest are "jumps into".
#2 PathNodes doesn't need drawscale 2 because Nobody cares, they can be 0.2 and will work in the same way. These are visibility myths.
#3 Speaking about myths. These are myths for clients ON-Line:

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StaticsCheck: Bork >> utflare3 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> utflare4 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> utflare5 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> utflare6 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare19 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare20 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare21 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.
StaticsCheck: Bork >> UTFlare22 won't be seen in clients. Class has bStatic True and has been screwed to False.

#4 Not important and that's why these can be deleted. Why having them out of game ?

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VoidCheck: HorseFly0 looks placed into void.
VoidCheck: Drip1 looks placed into void.

#5 Probably not extremely relevant here... or it might be boring and predictable without Bots using all entrances:

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CTFReport: --- Reporting AlternatePaths setup: ---
CTFReport: For Team 0 = 0 pieces.
CTFReport: For Team 1 = 0 pieces.

#6 Maybe we can do more normal settings instead of n00b settings:

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WallHitting: PlayerStart1 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
WallHitting: PlayerStart4 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart4 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart10 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
WallHitting: PlayerStart13 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
WallHitting: PlayerStart0 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
WallHitting: PlayerStart24 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
SpawnRotationResults: 6 Playerstart actors might need another rotation.

PlayerStart4 was just added and nothing else. Rushing ? Why ?

Map has 1942 registered reachSpecs and ZERO reachSpecs as left-over junks. This does not means perfection -
#7 Breaks

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NoIncomingPath: PathNode142 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode66 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode210 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode241 is not having incoming connections.
BreakPointsFound: These 4 navigation points aren't that used as valid paths. They might be break points if are a piece of a road.

They are using good routes because these are unusable. And because:

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UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode112 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode114 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode116 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode117 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode109 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode118 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode120 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode124 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode125 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode126 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode128 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: LiftCenter4 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: LiftExit14 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode169 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode170 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode171 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode174 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode175 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode177 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode178 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode196 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode142 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode147 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode66 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: TranslocDest0 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode210 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode214 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode220 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping PathNode221 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: Skipping InventorySpot48 because it's in water.
UnReachableNodes: Here we have 10 points skipped, 20  Navigation Points which are too high and 350 good ones.

I don't know if TranslocDest0 is a problem but in some maps I found a translocation failure when Bot could not get into point.
ALL Navigation nodes here could be LOWERED 10-12 UU, okay except PathNodes similar to PathNode144 which doesn't need to be buried at all, it's not dead.
#8 Impossible Paths

: NotLikeThat1.PNG (1008.55 KiB) Viewed 4543 times

Paths to the top are available but... How to get there ? Luckily this route is longer and then... unused.
For jumping down strategy is not like here but is doable and is EASY. LiftExit14 and related references is heading in an upper spot out of a lift and distance is too long for Translocator - this is a longer route probably unused but definitely wrong. Some of those water connections in tunnels are One-Way. The other nearby Lift also I think it needs to be a Triggered Lift and not a default one.

This was Editor check - perhaps I will want to see that Water deal... in game.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:04 pm**

Other than getting in and getting out of the water, the water has 2 side tunnels that go up to sniper points on either side.

Actually, the map does suffer 1 issue but most don't know it as they likely don't regularly use Sktroopers player model. When bots spawn into the map on the platform inside the side tunnels... they tend to stay there. Normal sized bots don't have this problem but the Sktrooper & SkaarjWarrior player models tend to not move around in those side tunnels so easily.

Not sure why the size difference does that, they're not that much bigger so they still have plenty of room to move (tunnels are not tight spaces) but they simply don't.

Nelsona wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:59 pmPaths to the top are available but... How to get there?

There's a lift. I believe. Stand on it and it goes up.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:34 pm**

Nah, there are two Routes: With Lift and... No Lift - That "No-Lift" it's indeed longer and not used - impossible path - spam data.

Troopers... Okay, let me switch to plain paths view because colors are not talking about collision data embedded in reachSpecs - okay neither plain view but there are a few rules which I know about drawing paths lines. If reachSpecs are for smaller ones, probably engine has reasons for that unless trooper is getting stuck in tunnels trooper is bigger than plain Bot.
This will need a check with a trooper added in spot - if Editor is placing him there and how. If returns message "Actor doesn't fit here" trooper won't navigate neither in run-time where walls are SOLID not like in Editor.

Good let me look around trying to explain what is about, maybe having images...
EDIT:
All right (okay, not all right), I found "TheCage", definitely I can call this a CAGE. Big ones are trapped here for some reasons as follows:

: TheCage.PNG (1.22 MiB) Viewed 4533 times

Node placed at the right in image is that one described by TrashLord as being without incoming path PathNode241 - a bugger happily masked by paths Lines - incomplete, for this reason Engine won't map a route for Pawns at the right.
Then... Routes heading down from these starts are... RED routes, like in tunnel ahead - Red routes are definitely Bot Paths and not Monster Paths. Why these are red ? Because there is a mine wagon over there probably a crusher and Pawn should avoid it, then paths are nearby walls. When Paths are so closer to walls, definitely Big pawns are not matching spot dimensions and so these reachSpecs are "small".

With all "credits" at Epic, Editor doesn't provide a solution for showing collision parameters in reachSpecs - considered I guess NOT Important, in this case it's VERY Important to find out what is there before wasting 3 weeks testing map in game. Data from map should be REVEALED but Epic have forgot reachSpec structure.
Based on my experience, these red paths are NOT Compatible in any way with other Pawns than Bot and/or Bots (old Bots).

Let me check something.
Yeah, somewhere in class UnEdCam.cpp probably concerning camera or viewport whatever, showing reachspecs task depends on "MonsterPath" and what a reachSpec returns based on collision data - definitely here is about blue line and red line. I did not find a method to reveal these hidden properties in Uscript and I don't know if it's possible to do that without Extra C++ support. Then... MonsterPath is something bigger as pointed in other assets, if Path is MonsterPath definitely that's a Bot Path too and Blue, Red is exclusively Bot Path.

What can be done, let's say that nodes can be moved a bit away from walls - even wagon can be deleted - this is CTF not Kamikaze after all. I believe troopers are fitting into tunnels without issues if paths would allow access through spots.
In other hand, I can load map in 227 and look at paths, there colors code is more completed and... I have deducted some dimensions based on my custom reachSpecs and how are they rendered. There images are more conclusive even if DescribeSpec from there is not that changed from original plain UE1.

Definitely I can try increasing collision size and looking if this is a good thing or it does damage to pawn's movement.

I'll move map into 227 because I'm very curious what PathsLinker is saying about navigation from PlayerStart11 to PathNode241 because in Editor I see no reason for not making reachSpec outta spot.

Edit2:
227 seems to say something different, maybe rejecting paths and... not rejecting at "PathsPreview" lol.

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ScriptLog: Route from PathNode241 to PlayerStart11 doesn't seem reachable.
ScriptLog: Flight is required for navigating from PlayerStart11 to PathNode241
ScriptLog: Result has Flight compatibility at CollisionRadius 42.000000 and CollisionHeight 65.000000.

: Interesting_Calculations.PNG (1.27 MiB) Viewed 4524 times

Here I think I need to adjust testing codes because... I have a path from PathNode but the other one is matching aerial chapter. I think here can be a ground path as well if path from Node to PlayerStart is WHITE = Giant pawns... Why pawn is not navigating back then ? I think 42 × 65 should match Troopers being enough for them.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:42 pm**

Ahem...
I was rebuilding paths because I've adjusted some nodes and... results were not so well - if I take colors in account...
As result I adjusted manually these reachSpecs in both tunnels:

: ResizedTo60x80.PNG (980.1 KiB) Viewed 4520 times

I believe a 60 × 80 size for pawns should be good for common creatures in those places.
And now, I have to write a small text file for being executed in a local test, because I need to simulate some Big Skaarj for testing if these paths will accept me as routes seeker. I left map as it was designed (wagon is there) but I modified 4 reachSpecs for heading pawns out of "cages" (were two spots like that). We also have some AlternatePaths...
Now I have to look for heavy spots in Big Formula - it might be needed other corrections - indeed DevPath has a very logic response at reachspecs data with regard to collision size which... it's not seen.

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:57 am**

Bump ahead with more tests results: I don't think I need to adjust PathsLinker. This crap is right, I checked in game that spot. That "slant" it's not climbable - situation is known to me. If you are moving softly you cannot reach at PlayerStart without jumping and Bot sometimes has this problem. So the route which initially Editor recommends it's not 100% logic. I want to see if a Bot wants RocketLauncher from there and if it won't have some jumping issues... Maybe it's time for Bot_Jumper...
Edit:
Nope, a BlockAll solved the ramp - now it's navigable even by walking...
But... I think troopers are having the same issues with Paths going through entrances in both bases Red and Blue. There on those entry tunnels are Red Paths.
What I did ? I operated command for resizing Player while I had active Flag Tracker mutator. Oh well... paths were gone and they went available after stepping into Base - any Base.
And then ? And then I have to adjust reachSpecs or else Bot-Trooper will never come for enemy Flag and neither bringing it at home, and not really leaving the base...
Technically Pawn can move IN and OUT bases but not really in straight line... So I think it worth screwing reachspecs at long as I have had no issues trying to get into enemy base.

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:04 pm**

Okay, look if it needs more tweaking, for me it looks like won't have major buggers for common monsters. reachSpecs in cause were adjusted manually and tested with "BigMan" and my CTFFlag Tracker mutator.

CTF-UTDMS-ValleyOfGiants_rS1180_12_66.7z: (602.06 KiB) Downloaded 248 times

Map has Monster-Paths but those Berserker copy-paste codes are mental problems... Not my loss.

Interesting pathing challenge... I like these...

I adjusted here some Net specific settings - actors have other properties for being visible in servers... (I did a basic network test) I wanted to keep MyLevel as clean as possible.
I had to remove temporary Berserkers for executing changes - zones were funky and then I had to rebuild map (451b build). Sliders 12 66 for preventing some BSP invisible barriers... maybe these should be different... I saved textures for Berserkers in a PathNode for being held in map during tweaks and then re-used for reimported Berserkers after execution of manual paths tweaking - they should be located as in original.
Paths were tested using a collision similar to Berserkers from map helped by a macro command:

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set TournamentPlayer CollisionRadius 35
set TournamentPlayer CollisionHeight 56
set TournamentPlayer DrawScale 1.5

Plain Red Paths were completely available until I fired the macro command so I could figure what I needed for Big Dudes - initial paths markers were moved immediately after executing macro, so the Cage is now Open, but not really the tunnel - just the spawn place and Bases have now access for high bodies. I think this should be suffice for Trooper-Bots.

House of Fools

Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements